Ogden's Guinea Golds & Tabs

[Ogdenscards]

Cannot find the picture in the gallery, but even though it can be only one of two cards and I have neither coloured. So will add it to my list, when the picture is found will copy it to my file.

Have also found a coloured base K, and D white panel group. Have many numbered cards from the first to the high numbers covering most bases.

Have you been buying the coloured's as well.

[GuineaGoldjr]

Image is in gallery if you scroll down to bottom but is surrounded in Red.Does this mean only I can view it 'cos it has not been oked by administrator?
Have very,very few coloured GGs-literally only a handful.
Bri.d.Do you have any duplicates.If so do you want to do some swaps?

[bri.d]

hi the only ones i have quite a few or the white panel group .the rest are the usual boar war lower numbers etc .nice find fitzgerald and maccalmont dont turn up very often

[Ogdenscards]

The Boar War cards, even though considered very common can be quite a challenge. Almost all have different print runs. Each having some slight differences. They include and the book does qualify this are perspective, colour and name panel differences. It can be difficult to identify on an individual basis but when you put 30 of the same card in front of you the differences jump out.

You think why do you want to do this but when I find a card and it is different in some minor way it is hard to say “got that in to the duplicate bin", so I end up with another example, and so it goes on.

I am just checking another couple of thousand Boar War cards and am doing just what I am describing.
Prior to checking these cards probably already had approaching 1000, in my book, different cards.

Am checking things like how many buttons showing how close to the caption panel are the medals and how large or small are the white triangles at the edges of the card. Each of these differences are not one off's but there are many examples of each.

I know it can be argued at being very petty but once you are a collector of the Guinea Gold’s it is hard to put, what seems to me as a different card, any where other than in my collection, albeit the subject is the same. Fortunately the cards are cheap 50p or less each, a good starting point.
I collect the card and not the subject.

[GuineaGoldjr]

David,before I came to see you last year I only collected 1 of each number of the numbered series.You convinced me otherwise and I now collect all the base variations of the numbered series.At the moment I only collect Each base variation of the Boer war DD series and don't look at picture perspective,tone,ETC.However,I may do this in the future.I think it is just a natural progression.As you see and handle more GGs you realise the very wide spectrum of them.I do regret however not collecting all the variations from the start as I think of the thousands of Ggs that have passed through my hands and not been added to my collection.Paul.

[Ogdenscards]

It's something you said, as I remember, that prompted me to re-look at my Boar War cards. Didn't you say that you have identified 15 different Baden Powell's and when I looked  I had less. I am sure that was you.

I have placed on the gallery, subject to being okayed, a picture of 3 examples of a Base M card.

I have identified at least 10 different sub bases to the Base "M" cards some being very obvious, but up until now not noticed any cards being duplicated in the sub-bases. Look at the picture and tell me what you think, they are all type B bases. To me these are 3 different cards.

In the book it suggests that there are 20,000 cards if you include these type of differences.
I am now less than 200 cards to get that are included in the book which is about 14000 cards. If you add on the coloured's and all the subtle differences then the 20,000 may well be realistic. My typed list, as of yet, does not include all these differences so I do not accurately know how many I have 17000+

[Ogdenscards]

I have attached here 3 cards depicting Minnie Palmer. All are base "M" large cards and all are the sub type base "B". I consider these to be 3 different cards because of perspective and size. Also for the more initiated, the tail of the "g" shows 2 different formats.

I have noticed that there are numerous different sub sub bases of the base "M" but this is the first card I have found that seem to be printed in multiple sub bases of base "M"

This may seem overly complicated to the new, but there is a logic.

Base "M" has approaching 3000 different images with a recognized 4 different bases and one of those bases I believe to be further differences, so there may be up to 10 different print runs with subtle differences.

[GuineaGoldjr]

Just added 2 more cploured Base M large actresses to collection.Have put pictures in gallery for anyone that needs to use them for reference (David?).

[GuineaGoldjr]

To Guinea Gold collectors on the forum.Please look in the gallery at a card I have recently aquired.Supposedly a common enough card from the Base DD Boer war series but there is somthing not quite right about it.Is it a later copy of the original card or some sort of printing error?
It has the feel of a normal GG but why the faded printing around the edges?Also the Blue ink on the subjects face has soaked through from a rear backstamp-this does not normally happen on GGs.The circular Blue Backstamp is also strange "pets post" not come across this one before.Can anyone throw any light on this pls?

[IanSammel]

I have no idea what "Pets post" is.  However in Germany it's quite common to find cards with "Kinderpost" stamped on them.  This is the handstamp from a children's post office game.  Back in the days when cigarette cards weren't so valuable people gave them to their children to play with, and that's what happened.  Could Pets post be something similar?

[GuineaGoldjr]

Hi.Could be but these type of cards normally have a backstamp advertising a newsagent that sold the cigarettes.Have tried googling pets post but no joy.

[GuineaGoldjr]

Have just added another coloured Base M actress to my collection.This one features Frasia and has lots of colour.Have added an image of this card to gallery.

[Ogdenscards]

Another to add to the list. I think I was the under bidder on this, did it have 25 or 30 cards with it.

With regard to your boar war card sorry cannot offer any suggestion but clearly, you are now looking for the differences which there are many. Water damage does do strange things to cards, or perhaps its the developing process.

I am trying to find out how they were produced to try and establish a theory as to how and why they are so many minor differences. For example, metallic like finish, different perspectives and pictures slightly to the right or left. Also the brown tinge most cards are seen in, I wonder if its the process or simply age that has these effects.

The changes of ownership may have had an effect on the printers used.

It has been published that GG's were printed up to 1907 and that the New series were the last but the Boar war series has Lieut.-Gen. Baden Powell.
Google him and it tells you he was promoted to this position in 1907 and remained this until 1912

[GuineaGoldjr]

Yes,it was in the mixed lot and lucky enough there was a base L and 3 base M actresses that I also needed.
I don't think the Brown tint of some cards was caused by age as these are mentioned in the original GG book which I think came out in the 20s/30s?so don't think they would have had time to age by then.Also if it was aging why is it only found on certain cards?
I think early printing processes need to be looked at-how did they go from a single plate photograph to a multi sheet full of minatures?Why did some poor quality printed GGs go through?-were they not inspected or were the producers just not bothered about quality?I guess there are so many questions that will remain unanswered.

[IanSammel]

I think early printing processes need to be looked at-how did they go from a single plate photograph to a multi sheet full of minatures?

I agree.  There are many photographic processes which produce different colours such as black or sepia.  Then there's the question of how well the process is carried out.  For example if you don't fix a photo sufficiently then it will fade.  If the photo isn't sufficiently washed then some fixer will remain and degrade the photo with time.  Also I presume that they would have used the chemicals as long as possible so some cards would have been produced with old chemicals which also wouldn't work as efficiently as the should.

There are lots of possibilities.  Unless there are some photo experts on the forum your best approach is probably to Google photographic processes to find out all the things that can go wrong with them.