MURRAY CARDS SHOP CLOSURE

[IanSammel]

I don't think that Murray's "set card values".  Murray's guide was simply Murray's price list.  They found they made an acceptable turnover at those prices, that's all.  There are other dealers around.  For example I believe LCCC (having started in the 1930s) always held larger stocks than Murray (I guess they will now in any case).  They just weren't so well known.  If you've ever been to a CSGB annual convention then you will realise just how many other dealers there are.  Murray's didn't have anything like a monopoly.

Back in the early days of organized collecting (the 1930s) there was an article in Cigarette Card News (the LCCC "house organ") in which they said that if prices are too low then you'll soon sell all your stock and have nothing left to sell.  If prices are too high then you won't sell anything.  LCCC therefore considered their prices to be the "right" ones based on their experience.  I guess that's still true and that the right prices are simply the ones the market will support.  In that respect, Murray prices are probably a fairly accurate repesentation of the market prices, but the market makes Murray prices, not vice-versa.   

Nowadays the market is becoming more and more Ebay.  It will be interesting to see how that affects things in the long term.

[Captain Pugwash]

Hello Tony.
Do you collect Gum cards?

The dealer in question purchased the better Gum cards.A&BC,Somportex and Anglo.
The demand for the harder too find cards is high.There are a lot of A&BC collectors who are prepared to pay a high price for the rare cards.
In some cases Murray's undervalued Gum sets e.g. Scottish Football.

I agree, now the stock of these cards has been sold and seems to be flooding the market,the value must come down.There is only so much demand at the end of the day.

[Tony]

Hello Ian,
You don't think Murray's set card values?
Can I refer you to their 2011/12 catalogue. Frontispiece. First three lines of text in upper case.
"CIGARETTE CARD VALUES".

The values displayed in the LCCC are mostly in the same bracket as those of Murrays.

Yes, one can pay more and one can pay less but whatever one pays it is measured against the price as displayed in either Murrays or LCCC catalogues.
As you say, it is those who have a great deal of experience and stock held.

I have both catalogues and either or the other will do but I do not use them as price lists - I use them as a guide to values; as I would imagine do many others. If that is true then isn't there a general consensus held by collectors and dealers of the price to ask for or pay based on the prices being asked in the catalogues?
       
I wouldn't attempt to sell a set of cards for ten times the value shown in Murray's catalogue nor would I think of buying them for such a cost. Dealers I have seen usually sell their wares for more or less than is shown in those catalogues but when I judge what they are selling I am conscious of the catalogue value.
That is how I get a bargain or they hook a sucker.
 
Therefore, as far as I am concerned the values are set by the prices being asked for in the catalogues.

[Tony]

Hello Captain Pugwash,

No, I do not have any gum cards in my collection although there are several sets that I recall collectiing as a youngster when I was buying the actual
gum. I wish I had kept them. In some instances the wrappers more than the cards judging by the prices being asked.

Murray's undervaluing cards? Where did you hear that from? The dealers who bought them from Murray's?


     

[IanSammel]

Hi Tony,

I think that we largely agree with each other that market and catalogue values are similar.  The question is whether the catalogue determines the market value or whether the market determines the catalogue value.  Personally I think the latter.  But whatever, the catalogues certainly give you an idea of the price you should expect to pay and whether you are getting a bargain or not.

I used to collect gum cards as well.  I gave all my duplicates to a friend.  If only I had kept all those Yellow Submarines :-(

[Captain Pugwash]

Hello Tony.

I doubt the dealers purchased many A&BC Scottish Football cards from Murray's sell off.Although catalogued they never seemed to have full sets.

[COLLECTABILIA]

Hi all, I am the dealer in question that purchased Murrays entire A&BC gum card stock - There were in the region of 75,000 cards and approx 6000 of them were scottish football subjects and there was a minimum of at least one set of each, including a set of the scottish coloured pairs which in my opinion should be valued between £40 and £50 each and some of them have fetched upto £70 each. Murrays catalogue price was £10 each and when I asked him about the under valueing of these cards he told me that he had not sold a set for years and felt he could not alter the price until he had sold a set via his auction.

[Captain Pugwash]

Hello Lee.

Nice buy. 6000 Scottish footballers.

 If he had at least one set of all Scottish sets why weren't  set price's listed in his catalogue?

[COLLECTABILIA]

hi, he did not have a clue what he had in his own stock (he openly admits this). I have purchased over 2,000,000 cards from him recently and this is only a fraction of what he had. regardless of whether there was a price for a set in the catalogue it did not mean that he did or did not have a set. There are many sets that i found he did not have that i expected he would have and vice versa.

[baystokie]

I see from their website that they 'hope to start accepting orders in the next
week or two' and customers should 'feel free' to browse the catalogue (presumably a catalogue still bereft of all the issuers whose cards were
sold out during their 'closing down 'sale).

In the past, I was never sure that what I ordered from the catalogue was
still available - often came back to me saying 'not in stock'. Will be
interesting to see what they can offer in addition to the remnants of stock following their above sale.

Any thoughts?

[loose cannon]

I suppose it's a case of 'wait and see'. As you say, they sold a lot of stuff during their 'closing down sale' so I wouldn't think their catalogue is a terribly reliable guide to what they actually have in stock now.

No doubt they'll get themselves sorted out before long. It's nice that we haven't lost them altogether.

[dant melys]

I see Murrays have linked up with Darren Epstein , he's the guy who was the brains behind Cards Inc as some earlier poster pointed out .
Darren is involved with many card enterprises here and abroad and he has an e-bay outlet at HUX777 .
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/HUX777-TRADING-CARD-AND-MOVIE-STORE?_rdc=1  

I'm sure Epstein will take the Murrays name forward in the coming years .

[lachlan]

Epstein certainly has a lot of items for sale on Ebay; pity he doesn't break them down into more categories. Incidentally, Murray is again selling on Ebay under the name of murraycards51.

[IanSammel]

For those who haven't seen it, here is Martin Murray's official announcement:

"I would like to announce that Darren Epstein has now acquired much of the
stock and goodwill of Murray Cards (International) Ltd. and has incorporated a
new company, Murray Cards Ltd., that has no connection with mine. He
intends to market the existing stock which includes much uncatalogued
material that has not seen the light of day for many years. He hopes to be able
to continue publishing “Cigarette Card Values”; with the series listed being
extended to include many modern trading cards which were his previous
speciality. This will all take time to set up but the new catalogue is anticipated
to be available for the summer. In the meantime, Darren intends to appear at the
forthcoming A.G.M. where he will have a good selection of scarce material on
offer. I shall be acting as a consultant to help him establish his new venture and
look forward to meeting customers, both old and new, at Lincoln."

The AGM referred to is the Cartophilic Convention in Lincoln.

[bri.d]

 ive never bought a card or catalouge of murarys or any other of the big dealers when most  cards  can be bought of ebay for peanuts  compared to the catalouge price